2011 R1200GSA misfire/pre-ignition/knock/ping/detonation?

I have also experienced this on my 2011 GSA

Its caught me wanting around a slow corner once.

Must admit only stalled it once though

Keep us posted

Wayne

We have solved a couple of these problems. Has the settings been changed

Please contact Shane @ Atlantic Motorrad

021 4174760

I had a misfire before on my GSA, but was worse than you are describing. Mine was running really bad and using much more fuel. It turned out to be the Throttle position switch located on the Left Throttle body. If you have a mate with a GSA, it might be worth swopping the part over to see what happens.

Cheers

If you mess with the throttle position sensor you may need to re-tune the engine. Putting your buddies throttle-body on may or may not improve the running of the bike, depending on luck - if you are lucky his settings are close enough to what yours need to be to be tuned.  However, if you do tune the bike and it runs fine you may have found the problem.

It could also be that your bike is just idling too slow, so it is not able to take up a quick injection of fuel.  Maybe up the idle a bit (or fit one of those resistors to your air intake temperature sensor cable).

If Shane at Atlantic can't diagnose it in 15min then ask the question again, otherwise let us know what the problem was!

Take the bike to Atlantic and ask him to have a look at it.  I'm sure he'll have an answer for you within 5 min, even if it's "Let me put it on the computer for you sir and I'll give you a call".  You can call him on (021) 4174769.

Let's hope it's something as simple as “Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.” (Apologies for stealing your line Tarryn  )

Just an update, I took my bike back to Hamman Motorrad last week, Johan was very helpful and gave it a check-up, he says the cold start noise is from the pulley belt and cannot be tensioned on the new DOHC motor, it is however unrelated to the 'misfire' issue, not much can be done about the noise.

On that note, Johan did a MOSS update however the 'misfire' symptom is still present. It is going back on Monday for further investigation, I will report back with an update.

Does anyone here own a 2011 ADV (or possibly a standard GS) - does it make this noise in the mornings and do you experience any of this 'misfire' (or possibly a pre-ignition) symptom?

Come ride mine sometime and compare. (2011ADV )

Wayne

My 2011 GSA also have a rattle when I start the bike in morning and it's on the side stand. When I start the bike on the centre stand it doesn't chatter.

What fuel are you using and do you have an aftermarket air filter on the bike?

Heya Wayne, I may just do that thnx

Hi Corne, I am going to try this tonight, I have thought of leaving my bike on the centrestand overnight, could be interesting if it doesn't make that noise :-o

I use unleaded fuel and the bike is stock standard.

thnx
Kevin 

I always park on the centre stand.  Otherwise oil pools in the cylinder and burns off when I start.  Also, the bike should not run for extended periods on the stand (like when warming up in the morning).  The engine is designed to run upright.

Kevin,

If Wayne has no objection we could take three bikes and go ride somewhere to give you ample time to try two different bikes.

-or- we could just take one of our new bikes and ride it together.

My invitation stands.

Chris Hamman

Anytime , I always keen.

Wayne

Hi guys, it has been 2 months since my last post on this issue. I have purposely left it awhile so that I can see if things get better after the bike is better run in. I now have 9800kms on the clock of my 2011 R1200GSA. Despite that this pre-ignition condition has improved since the last checkup, ie. it has not stalled, it still does the occasional shudder on a throttle blip. This may be normal with the new DOHC motor however it has reached a point where the irritation has caused me to want to sell the bike. So, if anyone is interested in a full house (with BMW topbox and panniers) 2011 1200GSA please contact me.

Kevin
kevin@pixelsandbits.co.za

Hi Kevin,

I find it amazing how "some" bikes just seem to be so different from others, and produce the weirdest symptoms, where others don't. I feel for you dude, but unfortunately have no skills to even OFFER you a suggestion. I'm a 4 week old 1200 Adventure owner (2nd hand) and hope like hell mine doesn't start acting up like this one.

However, in saything all this, I'm also astounded that BMW feel this is "normal".

Wishing you luck with this, possibly a letter to BMW head Office, or even Germany might be needed.

Alan

Just an update on this pre-ignition issue. I have requested that this be escalated to BMW HO for their response. I have uploaded a video clip where it can be clearly heard how the motor respond to a throttle blip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty4fGRF86gc&feature=youtu.be

I have done the same test with my 2011 GSA

http://youtu.be/fTb4LAwn1i0

something is not right with your bike, i don't think its got anything to do with "bliping". 

It must be something else and I'm with you  BMW need to find the issue and resolve it or give you another bike ;)

Good luck!

Corné from Tasmania

I don't really blip while riding but my 2009 or 2011 GSA have never stalled on me.

I thought blipping was for wankers.  Then I started using it when changing down and found it made the change go smoother (because the engine and gearbox were running at similar speeds) - even while using the clutch.

Then I realized that the blipping allows you to change down without clutching at all.  Now the clutch has become a second-class citizen for gear changes, and only gets used for slow riding, pullaways and occasional gear changes from first or into overdrive.

And since starting on the trials bike I don't think I could ride without blipping - sometimes that 2-stroke wants and needs a blip.  However, the blipping the the video seems a bit extreme to me, but then I ride an 1150 so have no basis for comparison.

I'm a blipper Charles...you can call me a wanker if you like but now your changing without your clutch!

Hi Kevin, you must be frustrated by now...I have only experienced a near stall when pulling away at lights in 42 degrees.

I think whats happening is when you blip the throttle the computer is telling the fuel managment system to supply juice and then you shut the air supply off and the left cylinder is too rich and stutters.

Dont sell the bike...give bigger blips.

You're no wanker - you're a Badger

I have always blipped the throttle when changing down for the reasons described by Charles. The BMW gearbox does not contain synchromesch rings, it is what is commonly known as a crash box. When changing up I pause for a split second to give the engine and box time to equalise rpm.

I must admit that the twin cam gearbox is the best I have experienced on any BMW.

As for stalling and noises, my twin cam is fault free.

Just another update. I have had my bike back to Hamman Motorrad for a 10 000km service where, amongst other, the "software was updated". The matter was escalated to HO where they say "there is nothing wrong with my bike". The pre-ignition (aka detonation) has improved somewhat, however now my fuel consumption is much higher and power is down. The HUD indicator now displays an average of 6.5l/100km’s, it was 5.9l/100km's before. I did 429km’s (with 9km’s remaining) on a full tank. My second tank went onto reserve at 389km’s and indicated 55km’s remaining. While riding very conservatively on my 3rd tank I went onto reserve at around 440km's with 43km's remaining. I could get almost 600km’s on a tank previously. Hamman Motorrad are investigating and checking out their loan bike as it has the same pre-ignition/detonation issue and will provide me with feedback.

6.5l/100km

Another update. On the 22 of May my bike went in and had the cam chain tensioners replaced. This was because the cam allignment kept changing and these tensioners are common between the 4 cams so they suspected the tensioners. Nonetheless the misfire/pre-ignition/detonation problem persists. To the point where again today when it stalled on me I was almost taken out by the vehicle behind me. 

Below is a video clip where I can demonstrate to you what happens if I twist the throttle very slightly off idle. I was able to replicate this a few times to some colleagues at work. I did turn the ignition off and on to reset the computer and it still behaved the same. Listen carefully to the engine idle while watching the rev counter, you will hear the erratic idle and pre-ignition (and ping) and then it stalled. I did not change the throttle position nor touch any switches. I don't know if this is related to the same issue as when I blip the throttle before I engage gear but it's not right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-8ELUYGie4&feature=youtu.be

Kevin
R1200GS-WP

Kevin why don't you take the bike to Superbike Solutions in Somerset West and see if the can find anything while running it on the dyna?  They've done quite a bit of analysis on the 1200 pinking problem.

Hi Pete, if the bike wasn't still under warranty I would take it to Superbike Solutions in a heartbeat, however as it is only 6 months old and has been problematic since day 1 I feel BMW must sort it out. I had hoped that by now that it would be sorted though

EDIT: I gave this more thought I may just contact them, I may just need a report for the NCC

Some more feedback,

I just returned from Donford Motorrad, BMW HO requested I take my bike there for an inspection. Neil Berry was kind enough to loan me a 2012 GSA while they inspect mine. I can report back the following,

1. The average fuel consumption indicated on the Donford GSA is 5.9l/100km this is what mine was before the new software was loaded it is now 6.6l/100km

2. The Donford GSA has more power, at least my butt dyno tells me that

3. The Donford GSA also pings when riding at 4500rpm (+/- 125km/h) and I accelerate quickly

4. The Donford GSA also detonates/pre-ignites/knocks/pings (not sure what it is?) when at idle and the throttle is blipped

5. The Donford GSA also idles erratically and stalls when the throttle is slightly opened (+/- 1%)

Video of the Donford GSA available below.

Idle with throttle at +/- 1% open

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XXvWUcJH5w&feature=youtu.be

Idle again, at +/- 1% throttle, after switching ignition off and on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph6ea-npTXw&feature=youtu.be

Blipping the throttle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vccgCn68ZOM

So, is this an issue with all DOHC R1200GS Adventures, in SA only? If so, why is this the case? If this is “by design” and “normal” behaviour I would like BMW to confirm this in writing and indicate there will be no long term damage as a result.

I will continue to hound them, even if it means doing so through public forums and social media and the NCC. I have been informed by too many other riders in SA that have/are also experiencing this and BMW fail to come up with a solution or just refuse to do anything about it. They are also told by BMW "we are not aware of any other cases like this".

I will update this thread when I have more information.
If you are also experiencing these symptoms please let me know.

Hi Kevin, I bought my twin cam from Donford and as mentioned previously find it to be fault free.  Can I be the only one?

Hi Kevin

You are welcome to come visit me in D'Ville and compare your bike with mine. Also experiencing similar pinking issues, they all do this my previous 30 year anniversary also did this. Was escalated to BMW SA where it was found that its normal to pink in certain conditions" before the knock sensor kicks in" I have lived with my bike with this condition with the promise that I will install a PC to sort out the roughness and pinking. I still have to do this though, bike is still under warranty but as PC is plug and play and servicing is done once a year....

I've done the same test this morning on a cold start.

http://youtu.be/82axTlsx5qI

I don't experience this issue.

Could it be the type of fuel in SA? I always put Catlex 98 Octance in my bike.

This is probably a silly assertion but I've noticed that you always to these tests with your high beam (brights) on. Could it be the high beam drawing too much current and due to the low engine PRMs the bike stalls due to low voltage?

I would be keen to know the outcome of this, must be very frustrating! Good luck and keep us posted.

Corné from Tasmania.